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JF: What experiences led you to a career in consciousness studies? 

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NT: One thing is that all human beings look for something that is spiritual. We are in a constant search for something that makes sense in our life, that helps us understand who we are, what is life or what happens beyond this life. Many people resort to religion. Others will try to do this with drugs. The truth is that all of us have some sort of sixth sense or psychic awareness. We can take information that is not only in the physical world.

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In many cases, we can sense the presence of a loved one that has deceased, or we can sense there are some other spiritual presences around us. In some cases, we can sense our chakras, we can sense some of our perceptions in terms of intuition or premonition, and we do not know how to interpret all of these.

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These are natural abilities that all human beings miss because we do not learn to recognise it and control it. So my work, and the work I do at the IAC, is to try and go deeper into understanding life and what happens after life, this physical world and this spiritual world, and how we are in constant connection with this non-physical spiritual world.

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It’s not always very clear to us. I have been studying this for a long time. I had some experiences as a child that were very remarkable. I didn’t pay much attention to the out-of-body experiences I had – the spontaneous ones, just seeing my body lying in bed, sometimes I would hear my name being called or hear voices or sense presences. I didn't mind that much. 

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There was one time that I had one of these out-of-body experiences, and it stayed in my mind because I am from a very small city in Brazil, and at that time, there were perhaps 1,500 inhabitants. Everybody knew everybody – it was that small. We didn’t have a hospital there. We didn’t have a movie theatre. I didn’t have a TV at home, or even been to any place where I would see somebody having anything like that. We didn’t have a library, so I didn’t have much access to information other than playing with my siblings. 

I was around seven or eight years old and I had one of these experiences in which I ended up in a huge hospital in São Paulo City, which of course, is a huge city, that I had never seen before.

I could see the city and I could see a strange building, which was a hospital, and I could see an uncle of mine in post-surgery recovery, but I didn’t even know he was going to have an operation. 

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So when my aunt and my uncle came back, I asked my aunt – they were very close to me; perhaps that’s why I ended up going there where he was – but I asked her how was it possible that I saw him in a hospital bed? And I described the bed and I described that he was breathing with the help of oxygen in his nostrils.I explained that there was something like a drain coming out of his abdomen that would leak into a glass jar on the floor, and I saw it filled with  a reddish liquid. Now, I know it was blood mixed with urine, because he had a bladder surgery, but I didn’t know at that time. So this was very remarkable because I asked her and she was baffled, and did not know what to say, what to answer, and I that had a strong impression on me. 

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Many years later, I became interested in studying spiritual knowledge. I wanted to be able to sense my subtle energy, not only the physical reality of mine, but something that would go beyond. I started looking for information at that time. So, 40 years ago probably, there was not much and everything that I could find was more like mysterious information, like something mystical and special. I am a very down-to-earth person, I wanted explanations. I wanted something that would be more scientific, more logical, that would tell me the whys, the hows of all of that. So I went to search for information, especially about the out-of-body experience, which was the phenomenon that I had experienced the most until then.

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Some experiences were very nice. The out-of-body experiences (OBEs) were always nice, but I have had some experiences, not the OBE type, but the sensing some spiritual presences sort, which in some cases were very fearful and very uncomfortable, and I did not know what to do with. I did not know what those sensations meant. I did not know as I was a child back then – maybe around 14 years old. And I did not know how to explain what was going on because I would have my eyes wide open, and see something so tangible, but it also wasn’t a part of everyone else’s reality. So it was very hard for me to explain to my parents and to others what was going on.

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All of that put together made me think of the importance of understanding our subtle senses, our psychic senses. I love calling it our energetic sensibility, because all of that comes in a way, as a result, of our body energy and how our body energy and our energy, per se, connects us to other people with situations of our past that we can remember and evoke the energy and bring them back here.

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This is what made me very interested in understanding consciousness. Consciousness in the sense of ourselves, who we are. Why is it that some people have these experiences so vividly with such lucidity, while others never remember anything? And why is it that some of us will be sensitive – like getting close to a person or maybe visiting a place and having sensations that we cannot explain, and sometimes we will justify it because of something that is around instead of being able to completely recognise that it is due to energy. 

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Why is it that for some of us, it is so important? It is so critical and it’s so part of our everyday life, while for others, they don’t even get a clue.. 

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JF: People often find when they’re leaving their body that they can go into a slightly murky astral plane where there might be entities. There is also the phenomenon of the gatekeeper, a sort of psychological prohibition or survival mechanism to install fear and keep us in our bodies. How much of this psychic disturbance is psychological, internalised, and how much is external, existing on another plane of reality? 

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NT: I experienced what you were saying. Some people will find it sometimes difficult to leave the body for different reasons. Some of them, while they are detached, will feel some sort of fear of the unknown. And our instincts kick in, like ‘What is going on?’ Because everything in our brain – so I’m talking about the physical body, that’s why I’m saying instinct – is programmed in a way that we have to be here in the body and take care of our survival.

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So the out-of-body experience challenges that completely as so many different mechanisms can make it hard for us to detach consciously from the body. So this instinct and conditioning is one; fear is another. But there are cases in which at the moment the person is starting to detach, there is a perception of not-so-pleasant energy sometimes around entities or these spiritual presences that can be around, and they can be interfering with us with how well we feel or how balanced our energy is.

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That fear and that perception can block a lot in children. And I have done a long study about children who have been sensitive and have had experiences in their childhoods, but children who experience some sort of a connection with this non-physical spiritual reality, they will very strongly sense that something is off when they’re detaching from the body. It makes them remember moments where they had experiences in the past that were not necessarily pleasant – when they were okay, but in most of the cases, they are not because the child cannot understand. Then this sort of conditioning and perception of this non-physical reality can also produce a blockage for the person later in life to detach.

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Having said that, one of the most important things is that everyone can leave the body. And as far as we know in terms of observations, research and evidence, everyone leaves the body every night when we are in a deep or deeper sleep. That is a fact. What is different from one person to another is how conscious they are at that moment. Some people are conscious at the moment of the disconnection from the physical body. Others only become conscious when they are already out far from their bodies or let’s say just floating. And the reactions of course change, because some stay very calm and can enjoy it, but some will be afraid and rush back into the body.

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Fear is a result of lack of knowledge. That’s what produces fear. And it’s so important that we clarify this topic so that people can enjoy life because life is not only physical. Yes, we are now in a physical body, but it’s more than physical and we can integrate all of these in our everyday lives – all of this reality that is multidimensional. I don’t really like calling it a spiritual reality, even though that is the term most people will understand.

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The reason why I don’t like it very much is because I see that it separates us from that reality. Like us here, physical, and then there is the spiritual reality, and this is not true. We are all directing all the time and there are multiple layers. So I prefer the expression, ‘multidimensional reality’ as we are in it right now. Just that we are not necessarily prepared and praying, or recognise and sense this non-physical part of our reality. 

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JF: It feels like remembering – it’s like the idea that we have all this junk DNA or that we use such a small fraction of our brains. There’s so much going on that we’re just not tapping into. Activating these senses through altered states, such as astral projection or lucid dreaming, can reawaken these extrasensory perceptions within us, that at one point weren’t extra, they were just what it was to be human.  

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NT: Yes. So you see how interesting, because our brain and our rationality in a way was further from such types of experiences and knowledge that is natural to us, and we keep processing. 

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On top of that comes a lot of brainwashing from our societies in fear, from so many different religions that tell us it’s a sin. You cannot do it. It’s only through God. So instead of seeing our natural abilities as natural, most of the time this is seen as something very odd or very advanced and very special. I dislike both extremes. I think it’s natural. All of us can have it. It’s wonderful when we can be lucid through it, but you tap into a very important thing.

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The experience up there does not necessarily mean that we are going to remember it because we have the experience. A  second process that we have is to transfer the information, the memory per se, to our physical brain. Because at the moment of the out-of-body experience, the whole point is that we are out of the body, therefore the brain is not participating in the experience. And I guess that confuses people a lot. 

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JF: I often pull myself out of a lucid dream or as I am about to leave my body, just by the realisation of it and my mind wants to grasp onto it. I remember a particular experience with DMT, when I was exiting my body and seeing all these things happening, and my brain was desperate to hold onto the memory – to analyse, to process it. And I had to just have this conversation with my mind to explain that it was alright to forget, I had to give it permission to let go in order to be in the experience, and then I was gone and I came back and I had no idea where I’d been or what I'd been doing, like waking up from a dream that you can’t quite remember. 

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NT: Exactly. And that happens even spontaneously many times. And sometimes we are out of the body and we think, I want to remember this when I am back. I have had experiences in which when I am back, I only remember that I said this to myself. In other cases, we have a very good picture of what happened.  I guess we have to rely on those cases. Having said that, the out-of-body experience is such an important phenomenon because it allows us to explore what exists beyond the physical world.

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So instead of needing an intermediary to tell us what is the spiritual life and what is it that makes us evolve ourselves, we go and we see for ourselves so we can eliminate any need for any mediator, and it becomes fresh. So I guess that is very important. 

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JF: For someone who hasn’t experienced leaving their body, how would you describe the sensations?

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NT: The first thing that we have to think about in talking about the experience is that what is going on is that we ourselves, the whole, everything in us that makes us ourselves, is going to be manifesting separately from the body.

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So it’s almost like our soul controls and detaches and is lucid and open and thinking and deciding outside of the body. The process of disconnecting can be quite intense in some cases. Not intense in a negative way, but intense in a way that can bring different sensations than we are used to in our everyday lives.

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Many people will describe, for example, a very strong vibration inside of their bodies that comes spontaneously, but so strong that it’s almost like we were shaking. So in a way that’s like a frenzy and sensation, as if there were an earthquake. So it’s really very intense. So this is the briefest stage, and that can happen very often.

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JF:  That’s usually when my mind jumps in and I pull back. I feel it very strongly in the physical body as well as the astral, it can be so intense it jolts me awake. 

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NT: It’s so strong that we feel as if it were physical, and sometimes we will sense it in the physical body and in the astral body at the same time. This sensation of vibration is happening in the energy body. The thing is, the energy body connects the physical body to the astral body. And because of it, everything that happens in our energy may produce a reaction in our physical body that’s sometimes producing a reaction in our astral bodies. So that is the key thing.

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And because of this, when we have, for example, a perception of a negative energy of a place, we feel sick. We may have a headache, but the perception was first noticed or sensed with the energy body, because the energy body is attached to the physical, then it produces this perception or sensation or reaction – an even better saying – of our physical body.

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Other sensations and one that is very strong and frightens some people is what’s called sleep paralysis. And there are many different reasons for the sleep paralysis to happen, but it seems that the most prevalent one – by far, the most common – is the relation of it with the disconnection from the physical body.

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Many people who have no neurological problem, no illnesses, there is nothing wrong, will have it. Many children have it. Many young adults have it. And sleep paralysis happens in this sense when it is connected to the out-of-body experience because the disconnection started, or sometimes we are returning to the body, but we are not fully inside yet.

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So it becomes like we are this disconnected but not out. So we cannot control the physical body. We control the astral body. You’re like a prisoner close to the physical body. We tried to move back to the physical body and it doesn't work. 

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JF: I have experienced that a few times when I was younger. I remember one time it would happen every time I went to sleep. I asked my friend to lie right next to me skin on skin, so they could sense if I was in trouble and wake me up, but I would be kicking and screaming inside and they wouldn’t feel a thing. I think the memory of it is what can be prohibitive to me wanting to leave my body now, even though I understand the theory, there is a residual fear of not being able to get back in. 

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NT: Yes. And in terms of the reaction of the body, nobody can see it, because it’s an internal perception that we are having, but a very real and vivid one. This produces fear in many people, as I was afraid when I had it for the first time, because it’s super strange and it’s not pleasant.

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We feel out of control, but once we understand what it is, then at least in my case, the fear is gone and we can enjoy it. We can see what’s going on. In some cases, we can use that moment to be able to be in the body with a bit more ease, or if we want to return, what to do to return? Because the idea is that we do not try too hard, just breathe in more deeply, for example, and try to be conscious of the breathing or conscious of the sensation of our physical body. I invented a technique for this called the VELO technique. The VELO process creates some sort of a harmonic alignment of all the energy within the energy body, and that produces a very healthy connection, almost as if we are adjusting anything that is out of tune at that moment.

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This is all very nice to say when we know about the sleep paralysis in relation to the attachment from the body, but when we don’t, that can be quite strange. What’s more strange, if I can go further into this, is that sometimes some people will sense a spiritual presence and in some cases, a very pleasant, very reassuring one, but in some cases, a chaotic one, and the person feels threatened. Though to the person who is experiencing sleep paralysis, because of that, it can be quite confusing. It’s almost like the person is being attacked, but it’s very important to determine that this has nothing to do with the out-of-body experience.

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It has something to do with the energetic sensitivity and whatever the person senses there was there before. And it is then just that we became conscious of something that was there but we were not aware of it. And this is a good thing because there are loads of things that we can do to make the energies better, cleaner, to take us out of that state and create more peace.  

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To experience this for ourselves, we can practise some energy techniques. So there are ways for us to handle this, and I think it’s very important to clarify that, otherwise people just become afraid. Other sensations related to the disconnection from the body can be like the sensation of falling or floating. Sometimes one may feel like going out, but like in a spiral as if we were on a rollercoaster and it was spiralling. 

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Other times, we may feel very heavy, as if we were sinking, falling through the bed. In other conditions, we may feel like ballooning, but losing our awareness of the borders of our body. So we feel as if we are big or only one part of the body. 

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Sometimes only the hand becomes huge. And that may be quite strange because we feel as if the physical hand was huge, swollen. And I know of people who even look for psychiatrists to help them to understand what’s going on. And that’s supernatural because if we do not know what could cause that, we have to try and find explanations. 

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If someone does not have the good luck of finding a psychiatrist that is a little bit more open and may say, “I don't see anything wrong with you, you don’t need anything,” we may just start getting medicine as many children do.  I’m not saying psychiatric medicine is not important. It is and it’s needed, and many people are extremely helped with that. What I am stating is that it would be wonderful if we could, for this condition, know to distinguish when this is just a perception that is natural, that is more like a psychic perception and energetic sensitivity, than something just neurological or psychiatric.

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JF: And presumably this is where the academy’s research can be beneficial, not just for individuals experiencing these phenomena, but also for other fields of research such as psychiatry to have a map.

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NT: Yes. A lot of what we try to do is to describe how these many different phenomena happen.

Because there are many dozens of cases that we study, because if we understand how they happen, what are the preparatory signs? Speaking of sensations and reactions, it becomes so much easier for one to say, “No, I fall into this category here.” 

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And when we teach, for example, the Consciousness Development programme, that is our main programme, we try and give people a basis of all of these connecting ideas and teach them how to base their energy and to recognise what sort of phenomena they experience and learn to live the body in a healthy way, and to understand what they see out there.

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Some knowledge of the mechanisms of how life is in the non-physical world, I think that is so important because many more of us, a big percentage of humankind, have this sort of experience either since being sensitive with energy or picking some ideas from spiritual presences, or let’s say, being able to have lucid out-of-body experiences or even experiencing sleep paralysis, which is a type of paranormal phenomena in a way, and so many others that I cannot even list.

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These natural phenomena are put in such a light that people are more afraid of them than feel like they should explore them. And that only favours the not positive side of it, because if I were, let’s say, a spirit or negative entity and want to disturb somebody, it’ll be so much easier for me if that somebody knows nothing about energy and how it works and about the non-physical reality. 

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The more we know, the more tools we have. I’ve seen that people sometimes are afraid of studying about these topics because they are sensitive. And they have recollections here and there and things that they have experienced, especially as children, that they do not want to experience again. In their minds, the logic they have is, if I study, I’ll be even more open. It’ll happen even more. But it’s not – it’s the other way around. You can gain control. When we study properly and we learn the proper techniques, we learn to control it. We can produce when we want, we start to have greater self-defence, to have greater understanding. Such a peace that we can achieve inside of ourselves. 

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I know for those who are sensitive, it can be quite a burden to go through life with that type of energetic sensitivity, but not knowing how to handle it means some people get to the point of even being more detached from social relationships. They do not like places with many people, and don’t like going out because it’s tough on them. It’s not pleasant. 

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This is something that can be addressed with energy techniques when the cause of it is energetic sensitivity. I have been working with these people for more than three decades, in one-on-one sessions. That allows me to examine them deeply and follow them up through many months, sometimes years.

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Having that experience, I can say most of these cases are due to some level of sensitivity to this spiritual, non-physical world, to this reality that is the energy that connects all of us. And once the person can recognise the source of what is in there, there is so much that can be done.

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One thing that I have learned with so many years of experience researching and teaching – and I am from the time when teaching was always in person, young people will think this is crazy – but I had to visit so many different countries to teach this in person, and what I have seen is that those who start correct from the beginning, I mean with information that is substantiated and learning to recognise their own signs, without imagination, without fantasy, do not need this.

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We just need to recognise how energy operates on each of us. What you sense may be different from what I sense, but it’s not a different conclusion. It’s like you are in an environment that is 20 degrees Celsius in temperature. For some people that is cold. For others it’s warm. There is an objective reality, but once we learn to interpret how we sense it, then we get a lot of information.

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And through all these years of teaching so many people, I’ve never seen someone that could not learn to work with energy, that would not learn how to sense or how to improve the quality of their energy. Of course, some progress is very fast. Others have to work a little bit more through this process, but I never think of someone who could not improve at all.

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When I talk about the out-of-body experience, that is more complex because the out-of-body experience involves our physical body. We have to relax and then it involves the energy body. We have to put the energy body in the right condition involved. Being able to control the non-physical body, to be able to detach out there, be able to be conscious, to be lucid, to control how we react, to know what to do, and then remembering later all the experience.

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I’d say the out-of-body experience is much more complex to control, but it’s still totally possible for anyone who is interested in learning and producing it at will. So it is vital that we make it clear that if somebody wants to master their energies, have more balanced sensation inside of themselves, align their chakras, remove energetic intoxications, reduce how much these entities may get close to them, it’s absolutely doable with energy techniques.

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JF: Do the majority of people come to the academy for help, because of experiences they've had, perhaps involuntarily ones that they would like to control, or is it more people curious and wanting to learn to leave their bodies?

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NT: The most common situation that we have is people who would like to leave their bodies. So that is what people look for the most, and they want to visit, to know there’s no physical reality and sense the freedom, because it’s a wonderful sense that we have when we are outside the body with no fear, with a balanced energy. It’s wonderful. So that is the most common. 

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We also have cases of people who have had the experience already and they want to start having it again, but they can no longer produce it. We have had cases of people who are afraid of the experience, they want to stop it, so they come to learn how to stop it. And yes, when we teach people how to control it, in a way we are teaching them to produce and to stop. This is what they want, of course, this is the meaning of being able to control it. Freedom and self-determination. That is so important, being independent produces in ourselves the reaction we want. 

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We also have a certain percentage of people who have lost loved ones, and they want to know what happened to them. So, “What happened to my son? What happened to my mother, that I was so close to, and she's gone and I am worried.” So they want to understand it. And we give plenty of tools and knowledge for them to understand and even to find information by themselves. It’s not only about giving answers, it’s about giving strategies, techniques and knowledge that empowers people who experience all of these realities by themselves, to make sense of what they feel and have already experienced by themselves.

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My work and the work of the International Academy of Consciousness is based on empowering people so they become independent. It’s based on giving them information that is substantiated, that we present the arguments of why things are the way they are, for people to investigate themselves through experience.Either they see the logic of it or not. So that’s what we do independently of any ideology. We have people that are sometimes quite religious. Then what? They have sensations they want to understand, they want to leave their bodies. It’s no problem. We have others that want something that is more independent.

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So there is no ideology, no restriction of who can have out-of-body experiences or not. And one very important topic that is at the IAC, and I emphasise a lot in my work, in my channel, is Cosmo Ethics. 

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With somebody who passed away, what sort of condition possibly could have put that person in that situation when they are in between lives? Some are in a very lucid condition, but some are not very lucid – they are confused. Some are even in a state of suffering that’s based on who they are. It’s not imposed. There is no figure of power imposing conditions on how people are going to be. You’ll be well, you won’t be well. It’s a natural result. When we understand all of these things, this tends to bring a much greater sense of ethics.

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And of course if we are teaching people to explore their powers, we have to teach them the consequences and how to do it in a healthy way and explain about ethics, but in a much broader way. That’s why we call it Cosmo Ethics. Like a cosmic ethics. 

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JF: Do you find people becoming addicted to leaving their bodies? 

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NT: Yes, I have met some people who said, “I was out of the body. I knew I was very lucid and it was so pleasant that I did not want to come back. I refused to come back.” But there is some sort of automatic mechanism like an automatic pilot that brings us back anyway. We haven’t  seen any evidence of people being able to control this, or decide not to come back. We see that it would be possible, but one would have to be so knowledgeable of energy, so experienced, so much more ethical in such a level of control, that hardly one would do it unless it was the right time, if you understand what I mean. Many people are afraid of going out and say, “What if I get lost? What if somebody kills me?” But we don’t see any evidence of this. 

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On the contrary, what we see in the majority of the people who learn to leave the body is that once you are out there and a lot of things take you back, you get emotional – it brings you back. It can be a good emotion or a bad emotion, but emotion, your energy has a reaction to anything. A place where you are or a person you meet – so you come back, you remember your physical body. Bam! You come back. So it’s easy to come back. It’s hard to go. And that is reality too, with people who leave their bodies.

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JF: Do you find that there’s a pattern of people having OBEs who haven’t trained? If someone is flung out of their body in an accident or experienced a shock  or trauma that can be the catalyst for people leaving their bodies as a coping mechanism.   

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N:  I see what you mean. Yes. There are cases in which, for example, somebody’s in excruciating pain, usually physical, but it can also be emotional or in an accident, as you said, in that moment of the accident. And in that instant, the person disconnects from the body. This is not such a common experience. Normally the disconnection from the body happens when we are very peaceful, very calm, very silent inside. That is the natural condition, but there are exceptions. There are cases of people who have been out of the body to escape from a certain situation. And we call it escape projection. 

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JF: I’ve heard of stories of people choosing to leave their bodies, elderly people calling their families for a last gathering, then going to sleep and not waking up. Another case, I was shadowing an undertaker for a story and they had an instance where a man in his late thirties, with two small children, that had lost his wife and was leading the bereavement group, came one Friday evening and thanked them for everything and said he wasn’t going to be around, he had decided to leave. It had been a long week and they knew him well enough to be confident that he wouldn’t take his life, so asked him to return on Monday. That night, he put his children to bed, then went himself to bed, and never woke up, just like that, he hadn’t done anything his heart just stopped.  

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NT: Sometimes, most of the time, this is not because they decided and they produced the final disconnection from the body. In these cases, usually what happens is that they have an intuition that it’s going to happen. They have an intuition almost as if, let’s say, there’s a positive non-physical presence, like a guide or non-physical mentor close to them who lets them know it’s coming. 

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This precognition happens to many people like a month before passing, and sometimes they pass in a car accident or they start having an intuition that they need to visit this person to fix that document, to talk about these, revisit some aspects of their lives as if they knew they were going to die. And that happened many times. But this is more in intuition than producing the disconnection, the final disconnection. Sometimes they call it the final projection, because they project and don’t come back.

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In this case of this bereaved man, yes, I can believe that is possible. Sometimes for the positive. For example, sometimes there are people that are about to die. Because of, let’s say, an awful disease – cancer, terminal cancer. And the doctor says, “You have two months to live. It’s impossible. That is a predicament. It will be like this.” 

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But the person said, “No, I’m not going to die.” And he knew he was in this condition, and the doctor says, ”No, you cannot deny it. You will die.” And all the doctors say that, and the guy probably says, “No, you are wrong. I am not going to die.” And that certainty aside from the guy and whatever that moved, the person could recover. And there are even studies about this that they call remarkable recoveries. Things that were not supposed to happen, but it happens in this case in a good way. 

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JF: Once you have achieved the out-of-body state, how then does one go about an agenda, say to visit a particular temple for healing or to visit a particular planet?

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NT: All of this is absolutely possible and one can choose to do it, but choosing to do it or wanting to do it is different than being able to. Because sometimes when we leave the body, let’s say I have a goal and my goal is to study the energy of volcanoes. So it’s a very nice experiment. However, in my heart, if I am remembering a sister of mine that I am missing, or I am worried about her, I will end up being close to my sister and not going to the volcano. Because what guides us as far as where we go when we are projected outside the body is our real focus of mind. And I say ‘real’ because I mean, we cannot fake it. 

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So if someone wants to visit a volcano to see how their energy is, they will have to prepare themselves. Think of it many times, think, study, put pictures of volcanoes so that when they are outside the body that comes strongly enough in a way to bring them to that volcano or whichever volcano.

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And this happens. But that is most of the time how we end up going places outside the body and who we meet and what sort of dimension we go to. But when we think of going places, and the examples that we have discussed here, they’re all physical examples. So I’m going to look for somebody that I consider to be a master here with the knowledge I have in my physical brain, but maybe when I am outside the body, I access knowledge of mine that is much beyond, and that master doesn’t make any sense anymore. I know much more. I am more than I remember and figure out when I am inside my body. 

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Or we think of a place. I’m going to visit Japan, or I want to see the bottom of the ocean or I want to visit a temple. These are physical targets that are things that we have known to exist. And then we have an idea about what they are based on our knowledge here in this body, what we have heard, not necessarily what we have seen with the eyes of our astral body. And we’re out there. The reality is so much more. All of this is the tip of the iceberg. All of these we discussed and we can go to places that I have no connection whatsoever with the physical world.

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Even some places that we cannot describe. It’s very different from everything we know here in a good sense and in a bad sense. Places that are so evolved and they look beautiful and wonderful, like a futuristic town, but not as a sci-fi move beyond that. Also we may go to places that are chaotic, not nice in levels that even here in the physical body we don’t see very often.

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So the reality out there is so much broader and the idea is that we know how the physics of the not-physical world works so that when we are projected, we can choose what to do wisely. What about using that moment to become more aware of what are our loss or traits of personality that could be hindering our evolution, or that specific trait should be the immediate one for us to work with to evolve. So that is much further, but a broader vision because that will work for us for our lives. And it’s a type of feeling of the self, of the soul.

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And everything comes into place. Of course there are cases where we are outside the body and we can sense an energy or have a presence close to us that transfers energy to us. And there are many cases of people who report that they have been healed of a physical illness. How I had a dream such and such, and when I woke I was no longer ill. Of course in these cases, they are not dreams. The person explains it as a dream, but these cases are not dreams. 

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JF: Often once the brain gets out of the way, the body can heal. You have cases of people who go into a coma and then they wake up and some other chronic lifelong condition has been healed. Or people with multiple personality disorder where only one personality has a disease, the others don’t - the most interesting of these cases was a German woman who had 10 personalities and some of them were blind and some of them could see, it was like they were turning the light switch off and on. 

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NT: The truth is that for most of us, I cannot say all, but in the case of most people, at least those of us that are more enlightened about this topic, we know there is so much more beyond the brain, beyond the physical, that so much is illusion. Normally we know so much more than we manifest here in the physical body. We are so much more, we need to give ourselves a bit more credit. When we leave the body and we see someone who is much more evolved than we are, much more advanced, that becomes our reference of being great. In the same way, we can see someone so much worse than the worst that we have ever experienced being. That is also a lesson for us of what life really needs for some people and where we stand in it. 

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JF: What about communicating with other beings, entities and people, through telepathy or symbolic language, or glossolalia?

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NT: Absolutely, yes then we try and translate that into our own language when we return and the meaning changes. I’m not going to say it distorts, but in a way it picks something that has a certain meaning and then it’s like translating poetry. Yes, you can get close to it, but it’s not the same poetry as the poet wrote.

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It’s interesting because in most of the cases, no matter what the language the person is using, we kind of understand the meaning. I say most of the cases because in some cases, we get caught with the symbols that are behind the ideas, the words. And then we may feel it’s hard, but when we pay attention to the meaning of the words, we almost can get that telepathically, not via the symbols, but via the actual content that is being manifested.

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And that’s what happens in most cases when we are lucid in an out-of-body experience. There are so many different types of bad experiences that it’s hard to generalise. Some, we get knowledge of a whole year in a minute, and it's very hard to bring to the physical brain, almost impossible. In others, we find it difficult to communicate at all because of the level of lucidity and control we are at that instance. So it depends on many different factors. 

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JF: What is the VELO technique? 

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NT: Yes. With the Velo, it’s actually a method-compliant technique. So I say the Velo technique because at the end we are going to do a technique. The technique is a very ancient technique. Used since the Buddha. Many different areas use a version of it, but a simplified version done in ways that can be very efficient for some things, but not for all. It can be very inefficient in other cases.

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What I did is that I got this technique that is based on having energy moving inside the body, upward and downwards in a kind of a straight line. In other words, longitudinally. So from the top of the head to the soles of the feet, and then bring back. So it’s not only thinking of it as the awareness of it, but also controlling the energies and making the energy flow in that path in a certain rhythm, in a certain continuity.

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I started doing this technique long ago, like 35, 40 years ago, and I noticed that there were certain ways that I would do it that would give me much better results. I would sense it much more clearly and the benefits that I would take from it would last for no hours, while in other cases, it was nice, but 10 minutes later it was gone.

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I decided to do it much later on in my life. Of course, I decided to do research about this to see for most people what is the effective way. And I observe how each person would do that technique, moving the energy up and down their bodies, but observing the technique in a way that I would sense it, so I would get close to them and use the best of my sensitivity, which is limited.

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I am somebody with certain capacities, but it doesn't  mean it’s perfect, but I did my best and I have examined thousands of people and that compensates for any day that perhaps I was not so in tune, but I could see enough cases in which I started observing what were the characteristics, the attributes, the aspect that somebody would do when doing this simple thing that is moving energy upwards and downwards inside the body.

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That would give them an edge, a greater result that would really help them to produce, for example, an unblocking of a chakra. Or help them to get closer to leaving the body consciously, or help them to have greater self-defence and vulnerability of or from some entities that would be intrusive and observing that longitudinally, because with each person I studied throughout the whole year, I started putting all of this together.

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So I created a method to do this technique that I called VELO. It is voluntary, energetic, longitudinal consultation, and further studies. After I wrote my book about this and after my 15 years of research, other studies that have been done have shown that benefits are even beyond. Those that I originally expected, because my expectation was basically to improve the quality of energy, unblock and get rid of some intoxication of energy.

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Something that VELO does a lot is increase self-defence, like psychic defence. So that was what I was aiming for as the strongest of the benefits. But no, I’ve seen that it actually helps to get rid of depression many times. Especially because many people are depressed because they’re sensing some sort of energy around and that starts polluting them.

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Also, some aspects of certain emotions that we have and traumas, they are cleared with this energy work. Because when we have a trauma, there are usually two sides of the trauma. At least two, sometimes more. But let me simplify here. There is the emotional side, but people forget about the energetic side.

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And of course there is the neurological side and sometimes the physical side. But what's this thing if we only compare emotional to energetic people? People try to do therapy to get rid of an emotion that is hurting them. And what happens is that they talk so much about that and they think so much that their brains adapt.

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Neurologically speaking, they are able to say something without evoking so much of that emotion. But there are many cases in which the emotion is under control, but the energy of that event that caused the trauma is still lingering around. So at certain moments when the person least expects. That comes and we recognize all of that thing is still there, even though it's been 10 years where we don't think of it.

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If the energy is there, the event is there. And when we work with this technique, there are many cases in which deep situations like this can be changed. So it’s a very interesting technique with multiple benefits. One thing that I love about this technique, and that’s why I teach this a lot, and I wrote a book about this, and I am a fan of this method because in my vision it has to be done correctly.

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Why this specific method? Because it’s safe. When we work with energy, sometimes there are things that will only have benefits, but people assume it’s always only benefits, but not necessarily. Some people may work with energies or go to not, no, a retreat or some sort of initiation, and they end up being too open with their energies or connected with something not causative to them that keeps lingering on their auras, on their energy field.

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What I like is that at the same degree that you become more sensitive and more aware, you begin to have greater self-defence and energy stability. So it’s almost as if you get prepared for what you are going to experience and find out about yourselves. Things grow together when the technique is done according to its principles.

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JF: How would you describe the experience of VELO? 

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NT: I guess the most difficult thing for those who are beginning is how do I know I am moving in early? Because sometimes we sense it very clearly, but most of the people – including myself when I started doing the technique – don’t sense it.

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We do not know what it means to sense energy. We are not taught and we start trying to move something inside of our bodies and we feel like we want confirmation. I guess that is the greatest blockage because wanting a confirmation causes us to look for the wrong signs. We keep looking for a physical sensation.

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And sometimes the sensation is not going to be physical, it’s going to be in the energy body. Sensation may be different than we expect. Subtle sensation does not mean confused, not sure, it just means that it’s objectively there when we are not taught to observe it. So I guess the most important thing would be for someone to keep making an effort in doing it. 

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There are three elements that I emphasise a lot that are necessary. And if those three are present, I don’t see how energy would not move. And they are first of all, the thinking person needs to have the intention of doing it, wanting to do it, the decision, the power of the decision. But of course, one thing is to decide. The other thing is putting energy now in a different sense, like putting emotion, what we decide to do. And that is will, and there is a third aspect that is action.

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So just decide you want to do it, try and do it, and there is your will. You act and keep concentrated and just keep going, and I promise there will be things. And that is exactly how research was done. Anna Laura, who is my sister, did a research that was very interesting. She used the term energy mindfulness for VELO, which is a term that I have now used interchangeably.When she did the research, she invited people who were lay people. They were not into studying energy. They were just into maximum relaxation. And she made a public call on the internet. And with that call, many people volunteered for the experiment. 

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And in that experiment, she thought people could do it without ever saying the word Velo so they could not go and look for references on the internet. They taught people to move energy without saying to them, oh, you are moving your energy body or your chakras, then you have sensation – no, she only said there’s something inside of your body. You won’t control it, you won’t sense it necessarily, but maybe you do, but you just keep focusing and trying to move and use your intention, use your tension, and well, people had such great results. They sensed they had improved their anxiety, they improved their wellbeing. They improved in so many different ways. So it was wonderful. 

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VELO TECHNIQUE MEDITATION

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We are always spirit beings inhabiting a physical body and we have energy, subtle energy. This energy connects us to people other than ourselves. We sense our chakras, we become sensitive. We have intuition. So let us think about this energy and relax our physical bodies. And now we are going to learn to control this subtle energy.

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We will move energies through each of our chakras, causing cleanliness, balancing out, aligning our chakras and producing greater self-defence. What you are going to do is that you will learn to concentrate. 

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During the night, our souls, our consciousness, travels to different realms in this spirit world and we can enjoy and learn so many things. There are sensations that we may experience before. Sometimes we feel floating or rocking from one side to another. We may feel like we are falling or even experience a very strong vibration.

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And after that, we may slowly feel we are more and more distanced and disconnected from the body. In another moments we feel we are catapulted out of the body and we are unconscious, lucid when we are out there looking back at our physical body in bed.

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So then you look back and you see your body lying in bed, and then you have a whole world for exploration. You can visit places, but you can even see where you were before being born. You can meet a loved one. You can learn about your resolution, what it is that you came to do in this life, but most importantly, you can make sense of who you are, why you feel the way you feel.

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And what makes you you and how you can use the good traits that you have right now to succeed, good progress and how you can reduce the aspects of you that you dislike. All of these, you can do and learn outside the body by increasing me in this multidimensional world. 

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Image 1: Aura

Image 2: Technique

Image 3: Vibrational State Visual Representation

Image 4: Projectarium

Image 5: Projectariam Finalizado

Image 6: Projectariam by Andre Visch

Image 7: Spectral by Phantom Limbic‍‍ → @phantom.limbic  

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Images 1-6 by courtesy of the International Academy of Consciousness